After all the disruption of 2020, what’s currently happening in the world of parcel? What goes into the brand’s decision to offer free or discounted shipping? How much do service levels, package weight, and package dims play a role? That’s what we’re here to discuss today with supply chain and logistics expert CJ Confer.
Brian Weinstein: Welcome everybody to Sippin’ and Shippin’. I’m your host, Brian Weinstein. We’ll be kicking it here every third Thursday, quenching your thirst for an insider’s take on trending ways to enhance your customer’s experience. So, grab your drink of choice and kick back, it’s sippin’ and shippin’ time. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Sippin’ and Shippin’. This is Brian Weinstein. I’m here with my trustee sidekick, Caitlin Postel.
Caitlin Postel: Hey, Brian.
Brian Weinstein: How are you?
Caitlin Postel: Good. How are you today?
Brian Weinstein: Excellent. Excellent. And we have CJ Confer here, an industry lifer in supply chain and logistics for many years. How you doing today, CJ?
CJ Confer: Good, Brian. Thanks for having me.
Brian Weinstein: No, no appreciate you coming out. And so, we did this the other morning and we did a morning edition where we were sipping on coffee, but today is our first ever happy hour edition. And, Caitlin and CJ both left it to me to make the decision. As I’ve mentioned in the past, I am a tequila drinker and we-
Caitlin Postel: I thought for sure you were going to say Duncan. Dunking with some Bailey.
Brian Weinstein: … Dunking with Bailey.
Caitlin Postel: Dunking with something.
Brian Weinstein: I am a creature of habit. Now you’re pointing that out.
Caitlin Postel: That’s all right. That’s all right. I’m sorry to interrupt you though. The tequila talk.
Brian Weinstein: That’s okay. That’s okay. So today I brought Chinaco. It’s Chinaco Blanco. I don’t even know where I found it, how I discovered it, actually through a friend. And, cheers everybody.
Caitlin Postel: Cheers.
CJ Confer: Cheers.
Brian Weinstein: All right. Good to get this one started. All right. So, we’re going to talk today about what’s happening with brands and parcel.
CJ Confer: Yeah.
Brian Weinstein: Right. So, this is a huge deal. And, maybe we take a step back and talk a little bit about 2020, obviously, the whole transformation because of the pandemic and everything that went on, right? It’s really changed the way the parcel providers are playing the game and really what their network was like. Were they even geared for this?
CJ Confer: Yeah. I mean, I think that they always had peak capacity, so they know how to run a peak. I mean, they understand that. But to be able to do it over an extended period of time, obviously, you saw a lot of CapEx being spent by both companies during the pandemic. What was interesting to me too was just how many people would think… The thought was, “Oh my gosh, FedEx and UPS are killing it. They had so many more shipments.” I think, what was lost in a lot of people’s mind was the fact that their more profitable shipments, that commercial business really disappeared.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
CJ Confer: It made such a change in terms of the cost and the cost structure around their revenue per package. Instead of pulling three trucks up to one building in New York and delivering 200 laptops or 2000 laptops, they had to delivered each to the person’s house.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah. Yeah. That’s crazy. I know for us, we saw in our network in April, May, our eCommerce volume for our customers was outpacing the volume that we had in November, December, 2019.
Caitlin Postel: Yeah. And I think that anticipation was just building.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah.
Caitlin Postel: Where CJ, you’re saying, everyone thought UPS, FedEx, they’re killing it. But, okay, how long can they kill it? And what’s going to happen when peak hits?
Brian Weinstein: Mm-hmm.
Caitlin Postel: Now what? How are they going to handle this influx?
Brian Weinstein: Right. Right. So now, in April and May, you’ve got volumes that are exceeding what was the peak in 2019.
CJ Confer: Yep.
Brian Weinstein: And, that’s just the beginning of COVID.
CJ Confer: I know.
Brian Weinstein: Right?
CJ Confer: Yeah.
Caitlin Postel: Yeah.
CJ Confer: And then, when it gets worse… I mean, the shipping providers even went as far as putting surcharges on packaging, or surcharges on shipments, which I never thought I would see them go after the big dogs like Target and a lot of the big box retailers. But, they actually had to place surcharges just because of how much their costs were increasing during that time, during COVID.
Brian Weinstein: Right. Right.
Caitlin Postel: Right. And now, those surcharges are in place, are they ever going to go away?
CJ Confer: I know.
Caitlin Postel: I mean, I doubt that.
CJ Confer: Yeah. I mean, FedEx did drop… I mean, UPS dropped theirs entirely. But, coming into 2021, if you look at their eCommerce economy option in their share post, you see that they raise that list rate a lot higher than FedEx right now, but they don’t have the 75 cent surcharge.
Caitlin Postel: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
CJ Confer: So, It’ll be interesting to see what FedEx does with that surcharge as well.
Brian Weinstein: Well, I have to imagine, I mean, look, in fairness, everybody’s gut reaction is that they’re raising these rates because supply and demand, and now they have a captive audience. But the reality is, they don’t have the infrastructure to support that volume increase, right? I mean, this was such a tremendous burden on their infrastructure, I would have to imagine.
CJ Confer: It is. But I do think for years, FedEx and UPS were understanding that the wave of eCommerce and how delivering to homes was more important. And they were trying to offer more options, like Saturday delivery options, Sunday delivery options, drop off points. So I think that they were working down this path. It’s just, COVID accelerated things so quickly.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
CJ Confer: The one thing you did see which was nice was the rate increase in terms of the actual net rates from 2020 to 2021 was pretty much on par with what they have done in the past 10 years. So, you didn’t see them significantly raise rates and take advantage of COVID to do that.
Brian Weinstein: Right. Right. Right. And so, let’s talk about how they spread it out. So, this seven day a week, or six day a week shipping options, is that here to stay?
CJ Confer: Absolutely. I don’t see how they can take back from that. I think customers, they have that need, they have that want. And, being able to be convenient for your customer and being able to deliver on those Saturdays and Sundays without charging the extra fees that before they might need to charge, I think is here to stay for good.
Brian Weinstein: Okay.
Caitlin Postel: Yeah.
CJ Confer: What do you think, Caitlin?
Caitlin Postel: I think so. And to see the brands really pivot side by side with the carriers, right? Brands that we otherwise saw dominating retail wholesale now realizing the potential into e-Commerce. Now, that’s a whole different volume pumping into those networks.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
Caitlin Postel: And, they have to keep up with those trends to keep up with the whole customer experience.
Brian Weinstein: Yep. Yep. And so, what are you hearing right now in the market in terms of the package lags? The lag obviously got really bad during peak. Right? There was only so much you can… You can’t fit a quarter of water into a pint jar, right? So, at some point there is a backlog of packages. Are they starting to catch up to it and get back to anything resembling a normal service time?
CJ Confer: Yeah. I think that you saw that, especially towards the end of January and February. Obviously, these last few weeks in February with the storms, especially hitting Memphis and Louisville so hard, I’ve actually seen the last two weeks be more difficult than during peak or the pandemic for some of my customers, even to just get picked up right now, due to some lag in both networks. That being said, obviously the weather is hopefully on the turn as we’re coming into March, and hope to see that not have the delay on their networks much further. But, they’re still putting in infrastructure as in CapEx as quickly as they can.
Brian Weinstein: Okay. And so, I know you work with a lot of different brands and you talk to people, how are you talking about managing that customer experience? It just seems there’s so many variance out there of delivery times and of costs, how are you recommending that people manage that experience?
CJ Confer: Yeah. I think that, it depends a lot on your product and what you’re selling, but I think number one is giving that customer options to checkout to be able to manage that experience. I mean, you do see a lot of customers that expect some free shipping, whether if it was just free standard shipping, or over a certain price value, you see a lot of customers want that. But, I’ve also seen with customers where they’re willing to pay part of that express option, if you’re able to deliver and really give them that experience. So, if your operations and your fulfillment, whether you do it in house or through a third-party logistics partner, if you can keep that on time, I do see customers willing to put those options in to pay more as well.
Caitlin Postel: And I think that’s key, is those options. Is giving the end-user the ability to choose. Because I think the statistic is of 73% of people abandon their cart, if they have to pay X amount or any amount for shipping. So why not diversify that offering? Why not give the person the ability to drink their own poison. It’s going to take you 10 days, but you’re going to pay 5 bucks, 10 bucks, whatever the case may be. And it’s a question that we get everyday, “What should I charge my customer for shipping? What do I do? Do I jump on the free shipping bandwagon? Do I set that threshold free shipping over a $100.” Right?
CJ Confer: Yeah.
Caitlin Postel: I mean, it’s a tough point. And you really have to understand not only the product to your point, CJ, but also the end-user, I think.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah. That’s an interesting one. So, free shipping obviously can be a great way to put more product in the shopping cart.
CJ Confer: Yeah.
Brian Weinstein: Right. But how do you determine where the offset is for cost? What does a customer or what does a brand do to look at that and have that delicate balance between price versus where I’m going to start to offer free shipping or discounted shipping of some kind?
CJ Confer: Yeah, that’s a great question. And, I do talk to a lot of brands and a lot of companies across the board, both big and smaller deal with this, especially depending on the variety and the number of skews they have, or as they bring in more products. So, I think it’s often overlooked in terms of the shipping costs on those. A lot of times when you’re taking into account a dollar value for free shipping, if you have a small compact product that can be understandable, and it might only double your shipping costs. But, when you’re looking at putting different products from one company together and how you would then have to put that in one box to get it to the end-user, shipping costs can really sneak up quickly in either way from margin that you’re not seeing in your overall modeling, because you might just be going, “Oh, we’ll just say, if we shelve two products, we’ll just double the shipping.” And sometimes it’s more than double when different products come together.
Brian Weinstein: Right. That’s interesting. That’s interesting. So-
CJ Confer: When a product comes in, do you have a dimensional scale or dimensional scanner when that product comes in from your customer, you do that for them?
Brian Weinstein: … So, we’re measuring the product when it comes in. Right? So for us, we’re doing dims and the dims get loaded into the system. And then, we’re determining what size packaging to use off of that.
CJ Confer: Okay.
Brian Weinstein: And I think that’s a critical component for our customers to manage it. And we see a lot of people that come over to us that don’t really focus so much on the packaging they’re using and the impact on their rates.
CJ Confer: Mm-hmm.
Brian Weinstein: Do you run into that a lot as well?
CJ Confer: Oh yeah. I mean, I think a ton of people. And I think it’s just not understanding, for example, like, one of my clients, they were selling free shipping over $75, where these companies were going on and buying $75 worth of sauce.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
CJ Confer: And by the time they got done shipping it was a massive negative margin on that. They were losing $30, $40, $60 a shipment.
Brian Weinstein: Because of the bulk.
CJ Confer: Because of the dims. And the bulk, and the dims, and the damages, and the number of boxes they had to use, and every time it would show up damaged. That’s a very difficult product.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah.
CJ Confer: And that was going on for years.
Caitlin Postel: Wow.
CJ Confer: And they just didn’t see it.
Brian Weinstein: So, it’s not just price. It’s not just your AOV on an order for free shipping. There’s more that has to go into that calculation.
CJ Confer: Absolutely. And you do, you need to have a good partnership with your warehouse, whether it’s in-house or not, in order to make sure that you’re getting those dims for each product, and that’s being measured, and being calculated to pick that best box. Because if you leave it up to a human that can’t always make the right decisions.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah. How would your customers go about handling something just like that? Right? So you don’t know really until checkout. So you can’t necessarily advertise free shipping above $75, because if they order $75 worth of spatulas, right? Little products that you can pack a lot in the box, and maybe they’re 15, $20 a piece, it’s no problem. But to your point, if it’s sauce where you’re going to get dimmed out, or big sponges, how do you go about calculating that? Is that something that you’re taking into account, that something from a software perspective?
CJ Confer: I think that you’re seeing a lot of different softwares come out and you’re seeing a lot come out in Shopify. And there are some softwares out there that are able to calculate this. I think the easiest way you can go about it as a brand or as your company is to start to figure out maybe some actual product dims that doesn’t apply for free shipping. So, if you are selling a big chair, like a medicine involved chair, or something of that nature, that’s a product that can’t qualify for free shipping. So I think, you need to make sure you educate yourself on your product. You need to be putting that together. And you really need to be analyzing your shipping costs. You need to have some type of vehicle where you’re going to be able to see that cost per order at a shipping level.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah.
CJ Confer: So, I think, it’s not only doing that, but your dims are always going to change and, I think, your customers choices and what they pick are always going to change. So you are going to have to constantly monitor it and really keep your eye on the cost.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah. And that’s an interesting point. So, one of the rises from the pandemic has been certain categories, exercise equipment. Yeah, like you mentioned. Home furnishing, more so than… Not that it wasn’t big before. But, we’ve seen a rise in customers looking for fulfillment services that are in either outdoor furniture or their indoor product, because people are home and they’re getting really sick and tired of looking at their old stuff and want new stuff.
CJ Confer: Yeah.
Brian Weinstein: Right? So, you have to face that dim challenge.
CJ Confer: Yeah.
Brian Weinstein: And figure out how to ship it most effectively.
CJ Confer: Yeah. And I think that, especially too, not just with single products, but as you get multiple products together, even with small products, it can really affect with that dim. And especially with the free shipping and depending on how expensive your product is.
Brian Weinstein: Right. Right. From a regional standpoint, have you seen certain regions perform better in the parcel category than others? Have you seen any of that?
CJ Confer: No. I think, to be honest, across the board, I’ve seen it pretty standard.
Brian Weinstein: Okay.
CJ Confer: Obviously, going across the country, when you’re trying to ship across the country, a lot of times that makes things difficult. You can find your delays more in the distance your package has to go from point A to point B. So, if you’re able to have obviously multiple warehouses across in multiple regions, you’re going to be at an advantage to be able to ship with the fastest transit times, less chance for delays, and obviously the lowest cost.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
Caitlin Postel: Yeah. Which multi-node approach is always a great thing, if the product calls for it, right? Back to our main point, know your product, know your customer.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
Caitlin Postel: Because you’re not going to place… Or maybe you are. I mean, if you’re an apparel company and you’re skew depth isn’t there. Maybe it doesn’t make sense for you to put everything closer to the end consumer.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
Caitlin Postel: But, good luck getting Bowflex free weights, when they weigh X amount, you want them next to the end user.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
Caitlin Postel: So I think that’s something to be considered as well.
Brian Weinstein: Yep.
CJ Confer: Yeah, absolutely. Those Bowflex weights, it’s funny, right at the time of the pandemic hit on March 16th, I remember my wife said, “I’m buying these weights.” And I go, “Okay, no problem.” And I looked and I said, “How much are they worth?” And she goes, “$390.” I was like, “Hun, we got two weeks here. We got two weeks, we’re going to go back to work. And you spent $390 on these Bowflex weights.”
Brian Weinstein: Yep.
CJ Confer: And I remember thinking that, and two weeks later you could have sold them for 2000.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
Caitlin Postel: Right.
CJ Confer: They were selling all the knockoffs.
Caitlin Postel: Yeah.
CJ Confer: And, we got to use those weights in our one bedroom apartment for the pandemic for that whole amount of time.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah.
CJ Confer: So it was the best investment she ever made that I-
Caitlin Postel: A year later, she’s whacking you over the skull with the one pound, you dummy.
CJ Confer: … Yeah.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
CJ Confer: Exactly. Exactly. She was doing that about two weeks into the pandemic, actually.
Brian Weinstein: That’s right. I mean, you were stuck in Jersey City.
CJ Confer: Jersey City, one bedroom apartment.
Brian Weinstein: Oh, that’s fantastic.
Caitlin Postel: Unreal.
CJ Confer: Six months into marriage.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah.
CJ Confer: How about that?
Brian Weinstein: But I have to tell you, it’s been a different experience for everybody.
CJ Confer: Oh, yeah.
Brian Weinstein: Right? And, depending on where you are… I’m in a house, so I had that advantage. And my kids are older, right? So I didn’t have to deal with that.
Caitlin Postel: No, you were just seeing the credit card statements coming in of what they were ordering from where, right? It’s a different disadvantage, I think.
Brian Weinstein: Big kids, big problems, Caitlin. Big kids, big problems. But yeah, I mean, I know you escaped back out to Pittsburgh, right?
CJ Confer: Yeah. Yeah. I got to spend some time in Tionesta, Pennsylvania, and got to spend some more time with my family. We have a small camp up there, it’s right outside of the National Forest. So, we had to bite the bullet and get internet connection, which we never had a camp and I never wanted to have a camp.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
CJ Confer: But, to be able to go there for a month and be able to keep up with work and do those type of things, and my wife was doing virtual training. So, we got to do that, which was very, very nice.
Brian Weinstein: Right. Right. Just so she got to do virtual training with the nice backdrops.
CJ Confer: Yep. She had her backdrop behind her. I mean, she was lucky, she got to see a bear. She got to catch some fish. So, she really enjoyed it.
Brian Weinstein: That’s awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even though I was in a house, I felt trapped, suburbia New Jersey, it’s not really a lot of elbow room, but yeah.
CJ Confer: Yeah. And, when you think about all that too, just with COVID and we’re all talking about how the boom in eCommerce is, and we haven’t even really spoke about the vaccines and being able to get those out, and how much stress that’s put on these networks and especially the express networks.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah.
CJ Confer: So, while the ground networks, and the smart post, and the sure post networks, and the mail got really hit with customer deliveries. Now these express networks are being stressed to try to make sure that they can get these vaccines out. Which, you got to give them a lot of credit, trying to do everything they can on both sides of this.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah, for sure. And meanwhile, to your point, they have to do it express. A lot of this stuff has got pretty strict temperature controls. It’s got to get to certain place, at a certain time, at a certain temperature. It has not been easy. But, you know what? I mean, we’re here.
CJ Confer: Yeah.
Brian Weinstein: I think, we’ve hit a point now of… Knock on wood, I know a lot of people who have had the vaccine.
CJ Confer: Yep.
Brian Weinstein: And hopefully, we can continue to roll it out and start to see some normalcy by May or June.
CJ Confer: Yeah.
Brian Weinstein: Sounds like the numbers are going down, which is fantastic.
CJ Confer: Yeah.
Brian Weinstein: So CJ, in terms of pain points that you see with your customers that you’re speaking with in parcel, what are they turning towards in terms of service levels? Is it, “Let’s go cheap”? Or is it, “Let’s go. Let’s pay a little bit of a premium to get it out”? Are they going to alternative services? What are you seeing out there as the trend?
CJ Confer: Yeah, I think it really does depend, like we said, a lot on the company and what they’re selling. I see a lot of trends, or work with companies that we touched on earlier, give options and the standard might be free and there might be a pay more for express services. But, obviously every year the costs get higher. I mean, so they’re looking to be able to do the best they can to control those costs as well as they eat into the profitability of their products.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
Caitlin Postel: It was refreshing for you to say that the price increases were in line with the last 10 years.
CJ Confer: Yeah.
Caitlin Postel: I was happy to hear that.
CJ Confer: Yeah, it is. And, it’s shocking, but they did keep surcharges. So, I guess that’s a way to be able to… Some kept surcharges and that’s a way to be able to continue to manage that without significantly increasing. That is in terms of your 4.9 on your rates, just like they always do, which they don’t talk about the surcharges obviously went up. Typically most of the time, more than 4.9 on most surcharges, up to 12 or 13%.
Brian Weinstein: Right.
CJ Confer: But, that is also in line with what it looked like in the past years as well.
Caitlin Postel: Sure. I think we’ve been talking a lot about more brands that are already established. What do you tell a startup that doesn’t really know their customer quite yet? And they think, giving them free shipping is the way to build brand loyalty. What are your thoughts on that?
CJ Confer: Yeah. I mean, obviously the number one thing is you have to get those customers and you have to have that customer experience. So, if you’re able to offer them something and you’re able to get that conversion rate at checkout, I think then you offer that free shipping, but I think you have to monitor it. And I think you have to be smart about it. And you have to be looking at the analytics, because watching that conversion rate and what your abandonment rate is in those certain shipping pages, can make you really educated on what your customer thinks is most important.
Caitlin Postel: Yeah. And I think that balance is so important, right?
CJ Confer: Yeah.
Caitlin Postel: You don’t want to lose your shirt. You see these numbers, these orders are flying out the door, and then you sit down and look, and actually understand that to your point on the sauce, “Wow, this isn’t what I really expected.”
Brian Weinstein: Right, right, right. Right. Well, I mean, look, there’s the cost of client acquisition is high. Right? And, sometimes you can attribute some of those delivery dollars to the cost of acquisition, especially in your startup phase. I think it’s important, and you might know better, but when that turnover comes, at some point… I mean, look, everybody goes out there and you’re probably losing a little bit in the beginning to acquire those clients. But once you do, you have to get smarter and smarter about that. And, is that turning towards whether it’s a 3PL and that’s not a shameless plug, or whether it’s a consortium that has brought rates together, so they’re getting a better discount. At some point after that startup phase, do you need to go that route to make sure you’re getting a deeper discount, and then you can start to afford some of this a little bit more?
CJ Confer: Yeah, I think that you always, as you grow, you want to be able to maximize that savings. And a lot of times, you’re able to do that. Maybe you can’t get the rates on your own because you’re smaller, but you can work with a 3PL that has better rates than you can get on your own. And they’re willing to pass that along, which that can obviously help you save as you grow. And, as you said, I think, it’s analyzing the customer, right? It’s the lifetime value of that customer. So you know about a repeat order, you know if that free shipping brought that customer back. So, I think that really analyzing that and seeing, as the customer trends, see if those people are coming back, whether they pay for shipping, or not pay for shipping. There’s a lot of scenarios you can run if you’re able to gather that customer data.
Brian Weinstein: Yep. No, no, it makes a lot of sense. And I think, data is the key to all of it, right? Just learning your customers as quickly as possible.
CJ Confer: Right.
Brian Weinstein: The trends, and then figure out what they’re looking for from you as a brand.
Caitlin Postel: And more importantly, having access to that data, if you are working with a 3PL.
Brian Weinstein: Yep.
Caitlin Postel: Are they going to give you access to know what that is, so you can make those decisions to drive that business?
Brian Weinstein: Right. Teetering on the shameless plug.
Caitlin Postel: Yeah. Okay. Don’t.
CJ Confer: I agree. I agree. I think a lot of times, people look at certain line items, or certain pieces, or parts of your operation as a line item and they just accept it for what it is. And, when you think about it, there’s ways that you can be better and be more efficient as a brand. And even if you do have issues with… Let’s say, you do work with a 3PL and you’re working on a part and you’re having issues with them. You’ve got to understand your processes too. And, if you’re not in streamline and you’re not doing the right things in order of passing information, and data, and not getting better as a company, you can push stretch on that relationship as well.
Brian Weinstein: Yep. No, that’s true. All right. So as we take it out of here, what are some of your key things to look for in parcel for 2021?
CJ Confer: Yeah, I think it’s getting back to that commercial business and seeing some of that come back in place and seeing how the networks reflects back to that and be able to continue to do… I think you’re going to continue to see bigger peaks. And I think, customer behavior has been changed forever, whether we go back full to no masks, and by the end of the year if life is like it was in 2018, I still think the buying patterns of people in this country have changed and you’re going to continue to see e-Commerce climb.
Brian Weinstein: Yep. Awesome. Awesome. Caitlin, any last words as we head out of town?
Caitlin Postel: Chinaco Blanco.
Brian Weinstein: Chinaco Blanco. We’re fans, right?
Caitlin Postel: Yeah.
CJ Confer: Yeah. Absolutely.
Brian Weinstein: Little cheers to everybody.
CJ Confer: Cheers.
Caitlin Postel: Long distance, six foot cheers.
Brian Weinstein: Yeah, exactly.
CJ Confer: Long arms.
Brian Weinstein: With long arms. Well, appreciate it. I think we’re going to wrap it up here, folks. And, hope you got everything you needed to out of this partial discussion today. Thanks, CJ Confer for coming in today. And, we’ll look forward to another episode of Sippin’ and Shippin’. Be well.
CJ Confer: Thanks for having me.
Brian Weinstein: Appreciate it.
Caitlin Postel: Please make sure you subscribe to our channel to tune in every third Thursday to Sippin’ and Shippin’. Give us a like, please.
Brian Weinstein: Love it. Thank you.
Caitlin Postel: Bye guys.
CJ Confer: Bye.
Caitlin Postel: Thanks for tuning in everybody. Make sure that you check us out on sippinandshippin.com, or any of your favorite podcast platforms. Give us a thumbs up. Go ahead and subscribe to meet us here every third Thursday.
Brian Weinstein: Wait, where?
Caitlin Postel: Sippinandshippin.com. You can go to Apple Podcast. Maybe you want to listen to us on Spotify. We’re everywhere.
Brian Weinstein: Is there any Gs at the end of the sippin’ and shippin’?
Caitlin Postel: Leave your Gs at home. No GS. No GS here.
Brian Weinstein: No Gs. Just old GS. Thanks for tuning in everybody. Take care.